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xeastham 1:30 Thu Sep 25
Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

Just saw this on the online Sky UK news from a report by a plod
A former mounted police officer has told the Hillsborough inquests that Liverpool fans threw beer and spat on him as he tried to keep order.

David Scott, an ex-police constable, said there was a marked contrast between the behaviour of Nottingham Forest fans and supporters of the opposing team as they arrived at the Sheffield stadium.

Mr Scott told the inquests jury that he and his horse, 'Silverwood', were diverted from helping to marshal Forest fans - who he described as "happy and jovial" to the arriving supporters from Liverpool.

He said several hundred fans from Merseyside were drinking from beer cans and were late getting into the stadium for the ill-fated FA cup semi-final.

The former South Yorkshire police officer told the hearing: "The mood of the crowd was intimidating because I was trying to ask people to move.

"In return, all I was getting was beer thrown at me, and being spat upon as well by members of the crowd outside [the stadium.] They were quite intimidating and restless."

The witness said fans were walking over people who had fallen to the ground and were crawling under the belly of his horse at the Leppings Lane entrance to the stadium.

"They didn't follow any sense of order," he said.

"On several occasions I actually recollect pleading with the fans not to be pushing from behind because they were trampling their fellow supporters, but I was met with a torrent of abuse."

In a written statement, made before his evidence today, the former policeman told investigators: "Never before have I been met with such hostility and drunken abusive behaviour from football fans, who seemed, in the main, totally oblivious to any requests for calm and order."

A barrister representing some of the bereaved families, Mark George QC, suggested that the behaviour had been no different from that at other big league matches and that Mr Scott had been exaggerating.

The witness replied: "I beg to differ."

10thofMay 4:08 Wed Oct 1
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

I just wished it was acknowledged especially by the Liverpool fans.

The Joker 4:04 Wed Oct 1
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

EVERYONE knows that pissed up fans outside were trying to force their way in and that set the chain of events in motion. Even Liverpool fans do. That isn't a new fact you're sharing with us Eggbert.

It isn't remotely relevant regarding compensation. The police and other authorities had a duty of care to all the fans that day, including the pissed up ones. They failed miserably. End of.

Eggbert Nobacon 3:30 Wed Oct 1
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

no but if the problem doesn't start with the police then who exactly would they get compo from?

10thofMay 2:58 Wed Oct 1
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

You're probably right Egg but why? It wasn't the 96 that were pissed up.

Eggbert Nobacon 2:44 Wed Oct 1
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

I'm sure the problem is the bad behaviour of fans is the 1st so to speak in the line of cocks ups that caused it

there for compensation for the 96 will be right out the window if they say that

10thofMay 2:39 Wed Oct 1
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

We all know that the tragedy was caused bay a number of factors including the behavior of a number of Liverpool fans.

If they looked up and said yes, the fans were partly to blame then i think we would all feel differently about the mickeys.

Eggbert Nobacon 1:54 Wed Oct 1
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

Police chief who ordered crowd gates to be opened at Hillsborough maintains that fans' drinking was partly to blame but admits his 'profound regrets' over the tragedy
Senior police officer admits 'profound regrets' over Hillsborough tragedy
Former superintendent Roger Marshall wished he had delayed kick-off
He ordered exit gates to be opened which saw 2,000 fans enter stadium
But he said fans' drinking and pushing was also partly to blame for disaster


A senior police officer has admitted 'profound regrets' for not delaying kick-off during the 1989 Hillsborough tragedy, but has maintained fans' drinking contributed to the disaster.
Former superintendent Roger Marshall told the inquests into the deaths of 96 Liverpool fans that when he realised the scale of the tragedy he went on 'auto-pilot because I linked the awful events on the terraces directly with my opening of the gates'.
He also told the inquest into the events of the FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest that asking for the 3pm kick-off to be put back was an option open to him.
He told the jury of seven women and four men sitting in Warrington: 'I could certainly have requested a delay of kick-off.
'I can tell you that it was one of the most profound regrets of my experience at Leppings Lane on the 15th of April that I did not do so.'
He said he made four radio requests from 2.47pm onwards to the police control box for three exit gates at the Leppings Lane turnstiles of Sheffield Wednesday's ground to be opened amid his fears 'somebody would be killed if the gates weren't opened'.
Exit Gate C was then opened at 2.52pm on the orders of the match commander, chief superintendent David Duckenfield, with the jury previously hearing that an estimated 2,000 Liverpool fans came through and 'a significant number' headed for a central tunnel leading to the terraces of pens three and four behind the goal.
Yesterday however, he maintained fans' drinking was partly to to blame.
During his patrols outside the stadium before heading to the Leppings Lane area from 2pm, he had noted a 'carnival atmosphere', but there was 'a tremendous amount of drinking going on here, there and everywhere'.

On foot in the crowds, he said he was aware that the build-up of the crowd grew progressively from 2.30pm and he said he asked the crowd to stop pushing from 2.35pm onwards.
Mr Marshall said it was people joining the back who were pushing.
At 2.40pm Mr Marshall climbed on to the parapet of the bridge over the River Don and said it was the first time he got 'a really good view' of the area.
Christina Lambert QC said: 'Was this the time you became really anxious?'
He said: 'The congestion. The fact that people were shoving and pushing. They did not need to do so but they did.'
The barrister asked him if he thought at that point the fans were going to get inside the stadium in time for kick-off.
He said: 'Surprisingly, no. They had no chance but at the time I thought possibly they could get in.'
By 2.46pm Mr Marshall described the scene as 'absolute bedlam'.
Mr Marshall said he did not accept he had mistaken his description of fans pushing and shoving for involuntary surges in the crowd.

He repeated that it was 'a battle which we could not possibly win'.
He said: 'We just did not have the numbers of police officers. Neither did we have the co-operation of fans at that stage at all.'
Mr Marshall said he thought 'some of the fans were determined to enter the stadium come what may' - not all, he said, but 'a substantial minority'.
He recalled a colleague outside the turnstiles urging him to open the exit gates but he was initially reluctant.
He explained: 'Here we have got a very, very substantial minority under the influence of drink, pushing and shoving without any sort of mutual respect for anybody else, without any self-discipline and really determined to get into the stadium.
'I thought that, well, if we open the gates this substantial minority is going to end up inside the stadium... causing a public order issue. Some of them may not have had tickets, I don't know. An indeterminate number would not have had tickets. Certainly a minority of them had far too much to drink.

'Close behind that was the absolute imperative of doing something about the situation outside because it was plain to me that unless I did something about it, people would be killed.'
The barrister asked if he considered upon reflection that he had made mistakes before he climbed up the parapet of the bridge.
Mr Marshall replied: 'Of course I made mistakes. I was in the present. I could not see into the future.
'I was doing my absolute utmost and very best to manage an increasingly deteriorating situation and as time progressed what options had I got left?'
He added: 'As time progressed I am sorry to say that the co-operation (of the fans) was not evident. Neither was self-discipline. Neither was self-control. Neither was a mutual respect for anybody else and these are the sorts of things we value in this country.'
Ms Lambert asked: 'Do you think you could have and should have done more?'

Mr Marshall replied: 'I think you can always say you could do more... I was in an unprecedented situation there. I was doing my absolute best. I was not standing around with my hands in my pockets.
'Disasters don't happen in my view because of one individual or a group of individuals have not done their best. Disasters happen because lots and lots of different factors all come together just at their own time and this is what we got, sadly.'
Referring to his comments about Liverpool supporters, Pete Weatherby QC, representing some of the bereaved families, said to the witness: 'I am not going to suggest to you that all of the supporters acted as though they were on some kind of church outing but your references to the behaviour of Liverpool fans are simply offloading responsibility, aren't they?'
'No,' replied the witness.
The hearing continues today.

Eggbert Nobacon 1:42 Wed Oct 1
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

possibly at Loftus Road too

can see from around 2 min mark here people splling out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znB4GWJWPY0

BRANDED 1:42 Wed Oct 1
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

They had to at Leeds in 1977. Barbaric.

Russ of the BML 1:40 Wed Oct 1
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

mallard 11:48 Mon Sep 29

Good point. I am absolutely convinced that if their was fencing up when the crush happened I described then people would have, at least, been seriously injured. Deaths? Very possibly.

mallard 11:48 Mon Sep 29
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

The Scoucers and Old Bill will blame each other for years to come, the real killer, for me, was the perimeter fencing,
without it, fans would have escaped onto the pitch.

When you look back, it seems a barbaric way for spectating a major sport.

Can't remember what percentage of clubs used it, but I'm glad we never.

Robwhu2 10:51 Mon Sep 29
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

RUSS

i remember craig

Eggbert Nobacon 2:47 Mon Sep 29
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

cholo

I noticed but on the site it says he's staff of the board

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=181150.0;nowap

cholo 2:46 Mon Sep 29
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

It says armin not admin.

Still cunty though.

Eggbert Nobacon 2:38 Mon Sep 29
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

stalker off you boring toss piece

One McAvennieeeeee 2:36 Mon Sep 29
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

Calm down ffs

Eggbert Nobacon 2:35 Mon Sep 29
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

brilliant, from their site about the 2005 indicent

bloke admits to bunking in and has done for year but says it's UEFA's fault

another fan has a pop as he cost a true fan with a ticket entry

Admin stick up for the bloke who's admitted costing his own fans a chance to see a Champions League final



Quote from: FAT SCOUSER on June 9, 2007, 09:45:52 AM
I'm a bunker. I've done it since the 60's when I fisrt bunked into The Boys Pen. Then grown men would cheer us on as we climbed The Pen railings to the roof, and then climbed down into their midst on The Kop. They used to even pick us up and pass us over their heads to the safety of the front, and the primo seats on the wall right behind The Kop goal. So, I grew up very much seeing bunking in as a badge of honour. And, think of me what you will, at the age of 50 nothing much has changed.
Indeed, I brag that I've been to - and got into - all 7 of our European Cup finals, but only ever had a ticket for one - Istanbull - which I bought off a fellow red for face value, minutes before kick off.
Only this time I did feel sort of ashamed, and only cos a genuinely ticketled fan might of been locked out in my place. I lost 2 good close friends at Hillsborough. But the tragedies of both Heysell and Hillsborough were not caused by ticketless fans bunkin in. And I bunk in, not charge gates. But I'm not trying to justify myself here. And ashamed or not, will I do it again? Of course I feckin will. And in the same circumstances, so will 95% of the others that got in without tickets that night.
And, the fact is, most of the people that bunked in that night weren't regular bunkers. They were honest fans without tickets left with no option but to miss the game or bunk in. And, think of them what you will, but there will always be thousands of Liverpool fans who travel without tickets.
You can't have it both ways - "Oh Look at our great fans. 40,000 of them. Got here by hook or by crook, sold their houses even. Oh these people are the best in the world!" - - Oh look at these 30000 scallies who've travelled skint and without tickets and give our club such a terrible reputation.
No. Sorry mate. It doesn't wash. You can't have the cake and eat it too.
So, what should we do?
Well, all hands know that - cos it's already been done....
Proper tickets, that can't be forged. Turnstiles that can check them properly. Proper policing and stewarding. But most importantly of all - Giant Screens as in the World Cup in Germany. Practically all ticketless fans would just watch the game on screen, drink like Camel's, sing wave flags, enjoy the craic, leave without a problem and - most importantly - then be seen as a credit to our club and city!
It's not bloody rocket science. And surely UEFA's coffers can stretch to chipped tickets, proper policing/turnstyles and a few big tellies?
As for the pricks - the real villians in this piece - the cu*nts that snatch tickets off fellow fans, and dip fellow fans pockets - well, all honest decent fans need to stand up to them c*unts and not take it anymore. But sadly, they never will.
But the main thing I reckon both LFC and UEFA need to sort out.... what do they want at our finals....
A heaving, singing, flag waving sea of red, that makes a wonderful sight for telly watchers the world over, and attracts more and more viewers per year, meaning even more dough in the coffers - or do they want to f*ck us off so the prawn sandwich brigade can enjoy their dinners in peace, as they did at the first new Wembley FA cup final?


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Quote from: Withnail on June 9, 2007, 04:07:16 PM
made up for you mate,i'm glad you to got to see the game at someone elses expense. You must be so proud.
Thanks for setting the reputation of Liverpool fans back 20 years.isn'tabout time you started taking responsibility for your actions before you start laying the blame squarely at the feet of UEFA ?

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Quote from: Armin on June 9, 2007, 05:12:02 PM

I understand where you're coming from but this: isn't helpful. The lad hasn't tried to hide what he's done and whats more bunking's been a part of matchgoing culture for a considerable section of our fanbase for a generation. There's a lot more out there willing to do it than this lad and it would be better to focus on solutions than blaming people.

Agent Scud 2:27 Mon Sep 29
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

If you look objectively at the situation the root cause was the Liverpool fans.

Yes, the police handled the situation appallingly but there wouldn't have been a situation if it wasn't for the actions of pissed up, ticketless fans.

It's about time that Liverpool fans acknowledged that they caused this themselves.

Eggbert Nobacon 2:04 Mon Sep 29
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

They're still at it

Why rogues are not so loveable this time around

Jun 8 2007

by David Prentice, Liverpool Echo

IT’S 21 years since Everton and Liverpool fans defied death to gain access to the first all-Mersey FA Cup Final.

Twenty-one years . . . but still we haven’t come of age.

We gazed in awe, and secretly smiled in admiration back in 1986, at TV footage of fans leaping like Spider-Man, minus the web-shooters, across a hundred foot high divide to get into Wembley.

Fans prepared to go to such lengths to watch their beloved teams were seen as lovable rogues.

Scousers were praised for their passion and devotion for their teams – not to mention their behaviour at that and the previous Milk Cup Final.

But times have changed.

Ticketless fans who try to gain access to football matches may be rogues. But loveable they are not.

Just ask the unfortunate Liverpool supporters who returned home from a wretched experience in Athens still clutching complete tickets for the European Cup Final.

Just listen to the words of this desperate eye-witness.

“My heart sank as I stood and watched what was happening. After what happened in Sheffield in 1989 I couldn’t believe Liverpool fans, of all people, could do such dangerous things.

“I honestly feared people were going to get crushed and we were going to have another Hillsborough. It was disgusting. The people who stormed into the stadium are scum of the earth.

“They put at risk hundreds of lives and should be ashamed of themselves. The vast majority of Liverpool fans are impeccably behaved, but there has always been a hard core of mindless thugs that ruin it for the rest. It hurts me to say this, but I won’t be following Liverpool on their travels in future.”

No, not more scapegoat seeking nonsense from William Gaillard, but the words of Phil Hammond, the chairman of the Hillsborough Family Support Group who lost his son in the tragedy.

Russ of the BML 1:36 Mon Sep 29
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

Robwhu2 10:03 Fri Sep 26

No mate. It was Tokely. Not sure you know him. An old pal of mine and Smithy's. Like me, at the time, we were only young and pretty small so it was horrible. I'll never forget it.

, 5:04 Sun Sep 28
Re: Another view of of the Hillsborough disaster.

Hardly anyone seems to be mentioning the huge culpability of the South Yorkshire Police, their inadequate crowd control, their fatal lack of response to the post crush injured and their despicable deliberate massive cover up of their handling of the situation. Then too there is the the smearing by the Murdoch press [ mostly The Sun ] of the behaviour of the Liverpool fans aided and abetted by those very Police mostly responsible for the carnage.

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